Yes Melissa Dereberry, there are gays and we can tell you how to speak to your children

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The internet has exploded over the last few days when theantibogan posted the following article entitled “The Day I Had to Tell My Daughter About Unnatural, Abnormal Homosexuals”. For those of my readers who don’t know the back story, the above article is a response to an article posted by a blogger named Melissa Dereberry an individual who seems to have an avid fear and/or inability to talk to her children about diversity within the wider community. This inability to talk to her children has prompted her to write this article blaming gays for her inability to talk to her tiny humans. Apparently her solution is for gays to be gays inside their homes and not in public so she doesn’t have to speak to her children but I’ll let you, my readers read her opinion for yourselves. The following link is a google web cache of the original article as she has since taken it down and revamped her blog but google being google – never ever forgets.

My brain has decided that since I have an opinion on everything that I would take the opportunity to have my say on Miss/Mrs/Ms Dereberrys article because I’m a masochist like that.

Note: This article focuses on mainly gays and lesbians due to the fact Melissa Dereberrys article mainly focuses on them.

Lets start:

Well, it’s finally happened. Something I posted on Facebook sparked a nasty debate. Last night, while watching the New York Times Square live broadcast, the co-host of the show tapped a gay couple on the shoulder at midnight and proceeded to introduce the newlyweds to the world. They then embraced and kissed for the camera with well wishes for a Happy New Year. My eight year old daughter sitting next to me was silent for a few minutes. Immediately, the thought ran through my head… maybe she’ll see one of them as just a really ugly girl. But, instead, she said, “Mom, they both looked like boys.” I was speechless. We were sitting in our pajamas, at midnight, supposed to be having a nice, holiday moment. Instead, a subject was thrown into our laps, without warning, like a Happy New Year can o’ worms.

Oh dear, your child saw a gay couple and her head didn’t explode? Well that’s actually a good thing.

Let me first say that I have nothing against gay people. I actually know several and I love them.

Yes you do. You obviously have enough of an issue with gay people to want to spend 500+ words talking about them. Here’s a tip: Having gay friends does not exempt you from being a bigot or having homophobic views or displaying homophobic actions against them.

They are great people. I just didn’t appreciate the hostess taking it upon herself to introduce that subject to my family. I was neither bashing gays nor gay marriage. I really don’t care what people choose to do in the privacy of their own homes. I do, however, have a problem when my kids are forced to see it, before they are intellectually and emotionally ready to. One of my friends commented that I shouldn’t shelter them from the realities of the world. Yes, true. But there is a time and place for everything, and it’s not New Year’s Eve on a prime time television show.

I wonder if had Melissa lived in the 1950′s, if she’d being saying the same thing about black people? Or interracial marriage? If you don’t want your children to see new things or have new experiences you might need to talk to them about – don’t expose them to the outside world. I hear the Amish are professionals at that. Also as a side note when a parent says “I do, however, have a problem when my kids are forced to see it, before they are intellectually and emotionally ready to” the only thing I hear is I do, however, have a problem when my kids are forced to see it, because I am emotionally and physically uncomfortable with seeing it but don’t want anyone to know so I’ll use my children instead so people don’t realise it’s actually me with the problem”.

The debate that ensued from my post turned inflammatory real quick, with plenty of name calling and outrage, which was never my intent. Someone made the comment that the television producers wanted us to think homosexuality is “normal,” which resulted in claims of bigotry and hatred. My response was, I think, fairly objective. The fact is, it’s not the norm—not in mid-America, or really anywhere else for that matter.

I’d like to see some evidence for that opinion because all I’m hearing is a piss poor justification for bigotry. I’d also like to hear your definition of normal. Perhaps “normal” in your mind means “the majority” therefore being heterosexual is “normal” because there are more of them? Honey, heterosexuality is not normal – it’s just common.

Homosexuals are a minority. Yet, another friend assured me that they are much more widespread than anyone realizes—most of them hiding out for fear of harsh treatment. Well, maybe. But I’d like to see the science on that one.

This news report (study attached) conducted in 2012 states that gay and lesbians make up approximately 3.8/4% of the current American population which is about 9 million gay and lesbian identifying individuals. The exact number itself is irrelevant. Since when has advocating discrimination or (in Melissa’s case) house-arrest ever been acceptable? Basically Melissa is implying that her views on gays and lesbians are acceptable because their are only 9 million of them. Well then tell heterosexuals to stop having gay babies.

Anyway, the point is this: It is, biologically speaking, not natural.

Because two vagina’s or two penises don’t fit into each other? So now Melissa is implying that sexuality comes down to a sex act when we all know that ones sexuality is so much more than a simple sex act. If sexuality was purely defined by the sex acts in which an individuals engages in, than there would be a whole lot more gays and lesbians running around. In the same study (report attached here) estimates that 19 million Americans, or 8.2 percent of the population, said they have engaged in same-sex behavior, and 25.6 million, or 11 percent, acknowledged some same-sex attraction. So if the study states that 4% of people are gay or lesbian but 8.2% of the population have engaged in same-sex sex – why aren’t there more gays and lesbians? Also if being gay or lesbian is nothing more than a sex act – why are so many of us in long term relationships? If sexuality itself is defined as a sex act (not based on love or attraction) – why do people get married?

It seems curious to me that many of the gay people I know are also agnostic, which suggests they hold to a scientific explanation of the world rather than a spiritual one. If that’s true, then I would love for someone to explain to me how homosexuality fits into the evolutionary process. The future of the human race depends on our ability to procreate, among other things. And homosexuals can’t do that. Logically, their behavior doesn’t fit into the “natural order” of the universe. Homosexuality is not “normal,” per say, it’s simply a choice. And I support 100% anybody’s right to choose. With regards to free speech, I also agree, but when the free speech offends or incites confusion in a child, I draw the line.

Okay so she believes it’s a choice. Who gives a flying fuck? Whether not being gay is a choice is not a justification for bigotry or discriminatory behaviour. Melissa is basically saying “Gays’ choose to be gay so they chose to be discriminated in employment, beaten, raped and murdered”. This is a form of victim blaming and is not acceptable. It’s taking the responsibility off the person who is holding the discriminatory view or displaying a bigoted behaviour and putting the responsibility on the victim. Nice example you’re setting for you children Melissa – blame anyone else instead of taking responsibility. Also what does being agnostic got to do with anything at all? Gays and lesbians can be Christian or Jewish or Atheist. Gays can have faith or lack it.

Let me offer an illustration here. The excessive use of profanity is a choice. There’s not really anything inherently wrong with it. It’s just a behavior. A few years ago, I was at a public park one day with my kids. It was a beautiful sunny day and we’d just stopped on the way home from school to enjoy the weather. As we made our way to the playground equipment, a young man ran across the grass about thirty feet away, followed by a couple of others. They looked to be about 18-20 or so. Within seconds, they all erupted into a barrage of profanity such as I have never heard. I began shuffling my kids back to the car immediately, but not before they had heard way too much.

Not only is she comparing a few f-bombs with being gay but again she’s stating that being gay is nothing more than a behaviour – I’m guessing the behaviour of having same-sex sex. Again refer to my earlier statistics. Poor Melissa, someone said a few f-bombs towards her. Now she’s tone policing in an attempt to play the “poor me” card.

Another example. A few years back, musician Erykah Badu walked nude through downtown Dallas as part of a music video. All right. I’m fine if she wants to appear on camera in the buff. It’s her right. It’s freedom of expression. But seriously? Don’t do it in downtown Dallas, where everyone and the baby can see it. That’s all I’m saying.

Babies spend half their time nude anyway. You’re subjective opinion on nakedness does not make it universal fact.

There is a segment of society that practices submissive-dominant sexual activity—also a lifestyle, also a choice. But I don’t want to see it on network television. Recreational drug use is a choice. Don’t need to see it. Gratuitous violence is appealing to some. Not for kids. We have free will, we make choices.

Again with the fucking choice argument. I’ll add an argument based on nothing but biased views because it seems to be the only thing Melissa knows how to do. Melissa if you’re reading, which you most likely will once my darling readers spam the Internet with my awesome, think about this:

You have stated time and time again that you believe that being gay or lesbian is choice. Therefore if gay/lesbian sexuality is nothing more than a choice therefore sexuality in general must also be a choice because if you haven’t chosen to be gay then you have obviously chosen to be straight. So by your logic – if you’ve chosen to be straight and that’s “natural”, that implies that being gay/lesbian is unnatural therefore wrong. It’s the wrong sexuality to choose. You’re saying that being gay/lesbian is the wrong choice. Your entire argument still whittles down to what you subjectively believe to be an acceptable choice in today’s society.

People have a right to do whatever they want, but to make it public for general audiences is inappropriate. Those kids spewing curse words in the park were exercising their right to free speech, but it was disruptive and harmful, and that, to me, is wrong.

Exactly how is being gay or lesbian harmful in anyway to you or your family or society at large? Will gays and lesbian getting married affect your relationship? Seriously honey, if a random gay couple getting married splits up your relationship – you have some serious fucking issues in your relationship. Do you have a fear of gays and lesbian ruining the sanctity of marriage? The sanctity of marriage that results in 1 out of every 2 marriages ending in divorce?

According to the study published in 2005 by Brian K. Williams, Stacy C. Sawyer, Carl M. Wahlstrom in their book Marriages, Families & Intimate Relationships

Married adults now divorce two-and-a-half times as often as adults did 20 years ago and four times as often as they did 50 years ago… between 40% and 60% of new marriages will eventually end in divorce. The probability within… the first five years is 20%, and the probability of its ending within the first 10 years is 33%… Perhaps 25% of children ages 16 and under live with a stepparent.

If you want to preserve the so-called sanctity of marriage – you should work towards abolishing divorce.

My point? Feel free to be gay. Feel free to marry your partner and live happily ever after. Just please don’t subject my kids to things they aren’t ready to process.

“My point? Feel free to be gay. Feel free to marry your partner and live happily ever after. Just please don’t subject me to things I’m not comfortable with.” There I fixed it for you.

Homosexuals would love nothing more than their lifestyles to become mainstream, widely accepted so that, presumably, all those kids who are actually born homosexual and just don’t know it can save themselves from the pain of living with thoughts they don’t understand and behaviors that are different. But I’m not sure I buy that. I’m not sure people are born gay, and I’m not convinced that a more widely propagated view of the lifestyle will remedy any problems. It’s wrong, but the reason people are socially punished for being gay is precisely because it’s not the norm—kids are ruthlessly mean, and believe me, they will find any reason to tease or put others down.

but the reason people are socially punished for being gay is precisely because it’s not the norm—kids are ruthlessly mean, and believe me, they will find any reason to tease or put others down“. You heard it here – gays and lesbians are discriminated against because we’re different from the majority, it’s funny that not ONCE in Melissa’s entire diatribe have I heard that it isn’t acceptable to bully gays and lesbians or force them to hide in the closet or discriminate and harass them or tell them they’re wrong. In fact all I’ve heard in Melissa’s entire diatribe is about how gays and lesbians are unnatural and wrong. How can she claim to be okay with gays and lesbians while telling them they are unnatural?

At this time it would be safe to say that Melissa has not once said anything about how it is unacceptable to bully gays and lesbians because if she did, she would have to eat her words and stop doing it herself. You see by telling us that we are wrong and unnatural – that’s a form of bullying and direct abuse towards another human being – a form of homophobia if directed at a gay or lesbian person. Gay and lesbian youth have a high suicide rate due to harassment, bullying and discrimination – the actions of a homophobic person.

The human psyche doesn’t take too kindly to being called wrong or unnatural. Bullying leads to depression which leads to self harm which can lead to suicide. Before all the “Oh but I’m not homophobic” apologists claptrap starts – I can read about how you have gay friends and you love them. You must not love them very much if your conditions are thus – you can be gay just don’t express it, talk about it or acknowledge it. Friendships should not be conditional. You may not think of yourself as a homophobic person but you certainly are displaying homophobic opinions. Not to mention that your views directly contribute to institutionalised homophobia that is rampant in our society. You don’t want gays to be discriminated against but you don’t want them to be represented on the TV, you don’t want them to be seen in public.You effectively want to sweep us under a rug so you can’t hear or see us. All because you don’t know how to talk to your children. I will not be swept under a run because of your parental failings.

My son was demeaned by the other boys in the neighborhood once because he likes to catch frogs in the lake—a behavior that they saw as stupid and childish. People are constantly making smokers feel like second class citizens. We humans can be a mean, hateful bunch. It happens. It sucks, but it’s the way our world operates. The fact of the matter is that most of us are not gay, and kids have enough things to be confused about already. Don’t pass off a minority lifestyle as mainstream. I will gladly tell them that homosexuality exists, and that we shouldn’t judge those people or ostracize them. But when I do, it won’t be on your terms. My kids are my responsibility, not yours.

In the last paragraph we get a bullying apologists statement (apparently humans are mean) followed by a throw-away statement about how bullying sucks but that’s just how the world operates so like it or lump it I guess. Not “lets educate people how bullying and discrimination is wrong”, it’s “deal with it”.

The next line we read states that gays aren’t the majority and children have enough to be confused about which is nothing but Melissa interjecting her views on how children think into a generalised statement. This statement basically says that Melissa thinks that she believes her children can’t think for themselves, that they don’t know what they want or who they are. Yes children are still developing but countless studies state that children know their gender identity at the age of 3/4 – transgender children know their gender identity at 3/4. Don’t tell me children can’t have a legitimate voice or use their brains when we have children who can establish their gender identity at 4.

Melissa’s entire diatribe is nothing more than words from an uncomfortable closed mind, thinly disguised as concern for her children by projecting her insecurities on them. All so people don’t recognise that the issues with gays and lesbians don’t come out of concern for her children but from her.

Well done Melissa, you’ve successfully outed yourself as someone who has homophobic thoughts and is largely uninformed about what it means to by gay or lesbian or about sexuality in general and you’ve also outed yourself to the world as someone who doesn’t believe her children can think for themselves. You’re also teaching your children that bullying is okay if people are different to you instead of teaching that bullying and discrimination is not acceptable in any forms. I give you parenting skill a F minus. You’re entire diatribe is nothing more than the homophobic ramblings of a discrimination apologists trying to disguise herself as a loving and accepting person.

I would be much more lenient towards Melissa’s views if she were actually honest about where they came from, I would offer education instead of sarcasm and scorn. If more people were up front and honest about their views (“I hate gays because of the bible etc”) instead of pussy footing around trying to look like a good guy while directly contributing to homophobia – I would be less inclined to tear these people a new arsehole.

In closing I offer Mellisa this quote as guide to initiate a discussion with her children – a small piece from a friend of mine – fellow blogger and opinionated fag Kali Black on how she would discuss with children about diversity in the wider population, namely the GLBTIPQA community. (For those who don’t remember GLBTIPQA stands for gay/lesbian/bisexual/transgender/intersex/pansexual/questioning/queer/asexual).

I also recognise that Melissa has an opinion but if you’re going to sprout any opinion – be prepared for backlash.

For the children I will never have: The facts of life.

Some men are born boys, some are born girls.
Some women are born girls, some are born boys.
Some people are born neither boys nor girls.
Some boys and girls grow up to be neither men nor women.

When you grow up you can be a man or a woman, or neither, or someone else.
People kiss other people who they really like or love. There are different types of kissing, there are kisses you give to friends, there are kisses you give to family, there are kisses you give to kittens, there are kisses adults give to boyfriends and girlfriends.
Some men like kissing women. Some like kissing men. Some like kissing both. Some men don’t like kissing.
Some women like kissing men. Some like kissing women. Some like kissing both. Some women don’t like kissing.
When you grow up you can kiss men, or women, or both, or no one. When you are older you will figure out who you want to kiss.

Adults sometimes kiss just because they think it’s fun. Adults sometimes kiss because they want to have sex, but not always.
Some adults have sex so they can make babies. Some adults can’t make babies or don’t want to, and they have sex because they think it’s fun. Some adults don’t want to have sex or babies. Some want to have babies but not sex.
Sometimes adults have sex with their boyfriends or girlfriends. Sometimes adults have one boyfriend or girlfriend, sometimes both, and sometimes lots.
Some adults have sex with other adults who they just think it will be fun to have sex with. Some adults like to have sex with lots of other adults. Some adults like to have sex with only one.
Some adults don’t like to have sex.

Babies are made when a sperm from a man joins up with an ova from a woman, then they grow into a baby in the woman’s uterus, which is in her belly.
Sometimes this happens when two adults have sex, and sometimes a doctor will join a sperm and ova from two adults who have never met, or adults who can’t make babies together by having sex, but want very much to have babies.
When you are older you will figure out whether you want to have babies or sex or both or neither. When you are older you will figure out whether you want to have sex with women or men or both or no one.
You are allowed to change your mind any time.

Sometimes adults can get sick from sex or kissing. This is why adults use condoms and dams, so they can have sex without getting sick or making babies they can’t look after or don’t want.
When you are an adult, if you want to kiss someone or have sex with them, ask them if they want to. It’s ok for you to kiss or have sex with anyone you like, but only if they say yes. If they say no, or change their mind, then stop right away. If anyone wants to kiss you or have sex with you and you don’t want to, tell them no. If you change your mind about kissing or sex with anyone, tell them to stop.
Everyone has the right to say no to kissing and sex any time. Everyone has the right to say yes to kissing and sex any time, and change their mind any time. No one has the right to make anyone kiss or have sex if they don’t want to.

As you can see, it’s really quite simple.

You’ll notice that talking about diversity within the population does not require a person to go into the intimate details about sex because as I’ve previously stated being gay or lesbian is about much more than having sex. If your child asks what sex is than politely say “Sex is something that grown-ups do so I will tell you about it when you are older

Simple.

—-
If you want to be part of the Queer Coming Out Project. Feel free to submit your own glbti related coming out story by sending your submission to rayne@insufferableintolerance.com

There are no guidelines for submissions.

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30 Comments

  1. You have a lot to say about how to raise and guide children for someone who proudly professes to be child-free by choice, refers to a life inside a woman’s body as “a developing fetus” that “kicks you in the ribs,” thinks nurturing cats is a superior activity, and has no maternal instinct. Your lack of credibility is second only to your lack of common sense.

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    • Just because I don’t want children doesn’t mean I don’t have views on how I would raise them and what morals I would try to teach them if I did have them.

      Teaching that bullying and discriminating against people who are diverse is acceptable if you don’t agree with them – is not the hallmark of a fit parent. Any monkey with half a brain and who knows how to use can clearly see that.

      Just because a person has children doesn’t automatically mean they are going to do even a half decent job.

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  2. I’d just like to speak to one point that was skipped over in the article. The scientific reason for homosexuality. First off, there is rather significant proof that homosexuality is to some level genetic, as displayed in this article .

    But back to the reason. The scientific reason for homosexuality is cut and dry, but there are a few suggestions. For one, males with a greater number of feminine qualities tend to find more mates then males with purely masculine qualities. Same applies to women with masculine qualities. This idea suggest that being gay is simply the ultimate chick magnet. (as a note, people shouldn’t complain about gays, ’cause if they were gay they’d get all the best women). I cannot say why this evolutionary process lead to homosexuality, but their is clearly an evolutionary link. Here’s an article that explains it a little better .

    The other suggested reason is that there is a connection between homosexuality and overpopulation. a sort of natural control to stop the race from spiraling into extinction.

    Long story short. Don’t hate us gays. Thank us.

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    • Thankyou dear reader. I learned today and for that – you rock.

      Have a flower –<–@

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  3. MHM, you live in a narrow world if you think the only “right” to an opinion is experience. I thought about how I would parent children. My husband and I talked about “when we are parents” early in our marriage. We thought we wanted three kids. And through those discussions, we became #childfree. We have well-thought-out opinions. Because they are well-thought-out, we aren’t parents.

    Rayne is correct. Melissa is a bigot and a bad example to anyone in her life, especially her kids.

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    • Thankyou for your comment. Not wanting the responsibility of raising a tiny human is a big decision and one that shouldn’t be made lightly. Childfree people know what to expect when raising children which is why we opt-out of it.

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  4. Lori L…. you are absolutely right. Experience doesn’t give someone the sole right to an opinion, but it DOES give someone credibility. I did not question anyone’s right to an opinion. Everyone has that right. But the right to an opinion doesn’t make that person credible, nor does it ensure the usefulness or accuracy of what is said. If you choose not to have children based on thoughtful consideration and planning, then don’t expect people who do have children to want, or trust, your opinion on child rearing.

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    • However having children doesn’t equal the accuracy, usefullness nor crediability of an opinion either. Parents don’t get an instruction manual for childrearing. Anyone can see how hatred and ignorance is bred down through generations by being raised in nothing but never ending cycles of ignorance and hate.

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    • Yes, because the only valid opinions are from those in the same circumstances. ??? What the wut? A good parent would want a variety of opinions on any issue they are facing in child rearing, especially if the issue is worth a pages-long blog post. Different points of view would only make for a better decision. I’ve been a teacher and a lifeguard and other things involving children. I’m also a humane human. Being a parent is not the only way to have a good/valid opinion about parenting. LOTS of “breeders” could use help from the childfree about how to parent (v) better and be worthy of being called parents (n). Example: I’ve never had sales training, but I know good/bad sales tactics when I see them. I know that the sales person who harassed me online was “doing it wrong.” I don’t have to be a sales professional to see/know that. I don’t have to be a parent to see/recognize bad parenting.

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  5. Rayne… you said, “Just because I don’t want children doesn’t mean I don’t have views on how I would raise them and what morals I would try to teach them if I did have them.” Agreed, you are absolutely entitled to have ideas about how you would raise kids…. but if this is your stance, then why do you clearly offer advice to someone else as to how to raise THEIR child in your blog post? You wrote, ” I offer Mellisa this quote as guide to initiate a discussion with her children.” As I indicated before… why would Mellisa WANT advice from a person who has no children, will never have children, and can, apparently, only speak reliably on the topic of feline rearing? This obvious rhetorical error damages your credibility (once again), in addition to weakening your argument.

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    • Again you’re assuming that my having no children equals an inability to have an understanding on how to raise them. I know how I would raise my children, I just choice not to have any.

      I offered the mini-article to Melissa because as I have clearly stated throughout my post that she has no fucking clue how to talk to her children. Instead she would rather advocate on a public forum via way of her original blog post, for the isolation and marginalisation of an entire community – sweeping us all under a rug (so to speak) so she can avoid having a conversation with her children.

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  6. Rayne, to your last: I did not say that experience guarantees accuracy… i said it adds credibility and credibility is subjective–based on such things as ethos and delivery of the ideas or opinions being expressed. A mad man is capable of convincing others to agree with his madness. On the flip side, even a mad man can have a good idea. It’s all in the rhetoric.

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    • Teaching others that bullying and discrimination is never okay will never be a mad idea. Teaching others that people should have equal access to things the same as everyone else including public displays of affection will never be a mad idea.

      Not teaching these things is mad.

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  7. Rayne, how do you know Mellisa has “no fucking clue how to talk to her children”? What are you basing that conclusion on? For all you know, she DID, in fact have a conversation about homosexuality with her children that night, or the next day, or later, and simply chose not to blog about it. Additionally, she may have had many, many conversations with her children about a wide variety of topics such as religion, drugs, violence and sex, etc. You are making hasty generalizations and assumptions.

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    • It’s quite clear from her original blog post that she didn’t want her children to see or hear of gays and lesbians due to her inability or lack of desire to speak to them about it. I suggest you read the post again.

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      • From her original blog post: “I will gladly tell them that homosexuality exists, and that we shouldn’t judge those people or ostracize them.” (In case you missed it, that’s a direct quote). The phrase “will gladly tell them” does not mean “inability or lack of desire to speak to them.” Quite the opposite. In fact, it clearly expresses a desire to do just that. Perhaps you should follow your own advice and read again.

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        • I wouldn’t take the word of a rambling woman whose entire diatribe is attempting to justify thinly veiled homophobic thoughts.

          If she in fact could/would speak to her children – why express a desire to censor gays on the television and street?

          You can stop with the homophobia apologists BS now, it’s quite boring.

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      • P.S. Directly quoted material, rather than loosely paraphrased interpretations, is also quite an effective tool in improving one’s rhetoric.

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  8. Rayne, no one said your ideas were mad… I was critiquing your rhetoric (which would, incidentally, be stronger with an improvement in syntax and spelling on your part). It’s all in the delivery.

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  9. MHM, your arguments are illogical. Quite ashamed.

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    • A gay persons arguments against homophobia are illogical? So a homophobes arguments are logical? Were you dropped on your head as a child?

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      • Rayne,hehe, you misunderstood me. I said “MHM”"s arguments are illogical, and faintly anti-gay. By the way, I’m a guy and I have a boyfriend.

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        • I’ve been spending too much time around youth and their chatspeak. MHM = mmmhhmmm rather than someone’s initials. My apologies.

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  10. Would you please remove this post? I am asking with my apologies for my inflammatory remarks. I have since had a major shift in my thinking as well. This post is harmful to my professional life. Thank you.

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